Curse

Phoenix Tears · Oct 19, 2007, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Yesterday, I tried to vanguish Old Ascalon only with my Heroes...
As if it doesn't suck alone, that you have to make those heavily unbalanced Areas with only 4 Characters, no thx to that god damn change of HM Dungeons that parties fail now, when the whole party has HP of -60%, that change is now also in every HM of the Camapigns, making the damn vanguishing alot harder...

Isn't it enough, that enemies become total imba, that we have to kill hundreds over hundres of enemies, which are absolutely imba vs. us.
I looked into wiki and wanted to know, what changes are made on Monsters in HM ..
Its not only the Level, but its also the Attributes...Monsters in HM have in more than 1 Attribute a number of 19-20 !!!! ...as if getting stronger/better skill bars and getting 1 Elite Skill plut alot more HP trough raised levels isnt enough, no they must also have imba attributes and now imagine that on places, where you have. Aren't Attributes of 16 enough for HM -___-, we players can be happy, when we can reach for shport times attributes of like 19, but then only for short time periods of some seconds or only by having luck getting a certain % chance triggered by Weapon Upgrades and even then the player has to use before all that certain buff skills like glyphs or enchants before...

The Enemies in HM don#t need all that !!! they have simple everything perma -___- Please anet, how unfair is that... sure HM should be a challenge, but also a fair challenge, which is balanced and also makeable via H/H if needed and without forcing players to use every 5 minutes 1 powerstone of courage to have a chance versus those enemies and not to have to fear to get kicked out of the map, because the whole party has -60% DP and that after like several hours of killing hundreds of monsters.

To my example of old ascalon, that I tried yesterday ...after like 3 hours of frustrating fighting versus heavily imbalanced 2 Grawl Ulodytes, which can easily heal out you, when you have to fight versus 2 of them in an enemy group, the player not being able to lure away the Grawl Warriors, before going vs. the Ulodytes - no every god damn grawl has to rush to you in an instant, and when you run away, they have naturally to go back at their damn points, so no chance to lure them to an other spot without getting forced to fight those god damn monsters. However, those damn Ulodytes heal so heavy imbalanced, that you can do, what you want with your 4 Man weak group, you will come up only with the big frustration, that this imba healing enables it the grwl warriors to easily whack away one of your 4 man after another, especially when 2 or more concentrate on 1 of your 4 charas, especially naturally the 1 monk...

Zhats naturally another heavily imbalanced problem of those HM places, where you don't have 8 people..
Do you take 2 Monks with you, then your attack power is massively to weak to get anything killed there, do you take only 1 monk with you, your heal powers are massively to weak to survive in those places very long, especially when you hit on a sudden versus massively imbalanced pop up groups of like 6-8 devourers, which devastate you in seconds, once they can nuke you with putrid explosions, or they simple spike you down in seconds, when they concentrate all on attacking your weakest part, the monks ..., when your healing is gone, your total helpless versus them ....

When I see such heavily imbalanced HM places, which force people really to waste every fewe minutes douzens of powerstones to have a chance to vanguish those places and having not to fear about getting kicked when fully party wiped too often and so losing much of spent time, and getting only frustrated, especially when you were very near to complete the vanguish of the area you were in and only like 5 monsters were left ...

This SUCKS !!! and for the sake of this game, Anet, please CHANGE it ...
Theres no sense in vanguishing titles, when they force you to search for PUG's
(try searching in Ascalon for a HM vanguish PUG, ya, you will be surprised, how much people you will find therfore *sarcasm*, the reality mean, there is NO ONE mostly, people get forced to search in forums to organisate PUGS for every single HM areas -__- ingame in spontanous moments you will never find them)

Please change something on that, beginning on increasing every earlier outposts max party size to 8, once a character has played through a certain campaign ...

means, when I#ve played through Prophecies, i want to be able to create in Old Ascalon a Party with the size of 8 people...I don't want go out HM old ascalon with only 4 man, only to get slaughterd in seconds by heavily unbalanced enemies, which have naturally to be higher leveled again, than us players ....

And when it should stay at 4 people only, sure, in NM modes its no problem, when monsters are like lvl 5, but in HM, its only an imbalanced joke, when you have to fight with only 4 characters versus Lvl 22-26 monsters.
That is from NM to HM a differece of +17-21 Levels

holy shit, thats really imo too imba ... when we really have to vanguish places like old ascalon only with 4 people, places where on every 5th step will pop up any damn monster group, thne on those places, like Prophecies has very much of those heavily annoying places with hundreds of pop up monsters, then its really enough, when lvl 5 Monsters get in HM max lvl only of lvl 15-20(22 for bosses), when we have to fight only with 4 characters on such places, then the lvl increasement from NM to HM is very much fairer with only +10-15 levels, for old Ascalon for example

And monster places have to be changed, that you will never encounter groups in such places, with more than 1 monk, because when you meet on a group, thatcontains 2+ monks, and yiou have only 4 characters to fight vs. that imba healers, its only 1000% sure that

1: your party wil get only wiped, because you will never have the chance/power, to kill your enemies, because the monks will easily outheal everything from you with skils like "heal other" or "heal area" and their other named clone skills

or

2: the fight will become an endless fight, where either side A or Side B will win ever, because your damage and the heal power of your enemies are same strong and both sides get quick enough energy back to fight theoretically forever versus each other -_____-

Ipersonally don't think, that it should be a big problem for Anet, to increase party size in outpots that have normally not a party size of 8 to 8, when people have played through a campaign and receive so accesse to the Hard Mode of that played through Campaign ...

I see really no problem in it, that when you enter Ascalon in NM, then your Party Size is still 4, but when you click then only the HM Button, that max Party Size gets then increased to 8. Then so heavy imbalanced HM ares, where you have to fight with only 4-6 characters become much more fairer and then its also fair to fight versus lvl 22-30 enemies in a sudden in HM, where monsters were before in NM only like lvl 5 or lesser
I also don't think, that it should be for Anet a big problem to implement in those out posts then some (more) Henchmen, when needed, when the out posts have too less Henchmen to create a 8 Man party with(out) heroes and henchs only, not getting forced to search for weeks for a PUG, that wants to try to vanguish the areas, that you want to do...

its also no big change on HM, yust only remove this annoying -60 DP party wiped kick out of map and increase party size on outposts to 8 for HM, which is otherwise only 4-6 in NM.
Thats all to make the HM again "fun" and especially "fair" for those places, which you have to do in the moment only with 4-6 characters, where really would be 8 needed in general for balancing ...especially on annoying maps with hundreds of pop up monster groups, where direct appear like 6-8 monsters ...tyria has lots of those ...and that sucks, because you simple stand no chance versus suhc with only 4 characters, when something like that hapens ypou knowe only for 100%, that you will get full wiped sooner or later and that it will mean in the moment, that this needs only to happen 3 times more and all your spent time trying to vanguish the place will be wasted -_____- resulting in very high frustration and rage quittings

Sometimes I must really think, developers of anet must be little perverst, when they develop such heavily imbalanced ares, they find it very horny it seems, when they have made something, that only frustrates their players and annoys them oO sry to say that, but you must really think that, when you meet on unbalanced areas, that really force you to waste douzens of powerstones, to have a chance to be successful and that you will get kicked now, only because your full party got -60%, where you had before that freaking silly change the chance at least to use such a powerstone, where it makes most sense to use one - when pull party is at -60%, that it makes sense to use 1 ,nat when full party is like -15 to -50% spread on different DP's (DP of -60% is still since GW exists an heavily imbalance in itself, when you compare it with Morale Boosts, that max is ONLY +10% which should be changed for a balanced ratio to -30%/+15%)

Winterclaw · Oct 19, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

As imba as it is, people manage to pull off vanquisher of such and such. I would have preferred that Anet thought HM out a little more before hand but what can we do about it? It's been around for a while but anet hasn't cared to fix it and probably won't fix it now because they are too busy messing up GW2.

xXReznorXx · Oct 19, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

So basically you're saying: 'I am not good at HM, please make it easier so I can get a title you actually have to put some effort in.'

Hard Mode is meant to be a challenge and to be honest, you just need to work on your skills, because I had almost zero problems vanquishing Old Ascalon. After attempting to kill a group of 2 Ulodyte and 2 Warriors, it was pretty obvious we were lacking in damage because we couldn't kill them. So take a good monk, 2 damage dealers and, for example, a Paragon with you, and BAM, problem solved.

There is no need for increasing the party size in Old Ascalon. If you can't beat the monsters, configure a better team or just don't bother with HM if you're too lazy to put some effort into it.

the_jos · Oct 19, 2007, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Well, I have several guildies that cleared the Ascalon areas with H&H.
Sure, it takes time, but it's not impossible.
Seems to me that you need more time considering your team builds and/or try vanquising some 6-person areas first.

And there is the PUGs and Grouping section here on guru if you can't do it alone (or don't want to).

Phoenix Tears · Oct 19, 2007, 06:10 PM // 18:10

they have time to fix bugs, when they have in the moment no bugs to work on to fix them, that one team, can surely make a little update, that will increase max party size for players that have played through a campaign for such outposts from 4-6 to 8 ...

This is only a small change in the program codes of the outposts, like changing some numbers or implementing 1 code to those outposts, that tells the game, that party max size for all outposts becomes 8, once game is played through .thats no big change and especially not much effort, but will have a great effect for balancing HM and making it more fair

Also removing this annyoing party kick when when full party has -60% DP, shoudln't be a big problem, Anet has implemented, while being working on GW2, so they can also remove/fix that too, while they are mainly working still on GW2

Quote:

So basically you're saying: 'I am not good at HM, please make it easier so I can get a title you actually have to put some effort in.'

Hard Mode is meant to be a challenge and to be honest, you just need to work on your skills, because I had almost zero problems vanquishing Old Ascalon. After attempting to kill a group of 2 Ulodyte and 2 Warriors, it was pretty obvious we were lacking in damage because we couldn't kill them. So take a good monk, 2 damage dealers and, for example, a Paragon with you, and BAM, problem solved.

There is no need for increasing the party size in Old Ascalon. If you can't beat the monsters, configure a better team or just don't bother with HM if you're too lazy to put some effort into it.

As said, sure it should be a challenge, but also be a fair challenge, fighting lvl 22-30 enemies with only 4 characters, especially with only heroes is not fair, and especially again, when it seems now to force people to make it with certain special group builds, to have a chance ... group builds needs to be totally regardless, if i take now a paragon with me, or not should not decide, if i will be successful, or not, neither if i play now with 3 heroes or with 3 players in Old Ascalon, which is still alone unfair through pve only skills being unable to be used by heroes ...and thats the point for sure, why you told me, to take a paragon weith me, cause of its ability to reduce received damage ...

and what should people do, which dislike paragons and so have not unlocked very much of their skills for heroes, should i get now forced to search for a paragon player ? our should i get now forced to unlock first douzens of paragon skills, only to be able to create a paragon hero, with that i will have only a chance to successful vanguish old ascalon ... no i don#t think so, I't can be, that players get forced to make ever certain speciall things, only to be successful in 1 thing of the game, thats also not the point of GW where Skill > Time ...

--------

@jos: i also mentioned, that i don't want to get forced to search in forums, only to be able to find pugs for the area that i want try to vanguish, but thats the matter ingame, because you don't simple find pugs anymore ingame for certain areas, when you go to old ascalon, like 75% are there people which try only to sell some crap, 20% newbies and the last 5% are afk'lers standing only around
When you look at the group search ,the chance to find there parties for vanguishing is near 0 (at least whenever I searched

Day Trooper · Oct 19, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Without a doubt:

/notsigned

Achieving the Vanquisher title is supposed to be difficult! Why do you think it's called 'hard mode'?!?

I would absolutely /ragequit if ANet made vanquisher easier - especially since I just got Legendary Vanquisher recently

and know first-hand how difficult it can be - and would be royally peeved that others could take an easier route to get the same title I put in many nights trying to achieve.

And you know what? This is the title I'm most proud of because of how tough it is!

If you're having trouble with areas review wikis and what not to see how others completed them. No area is impossible trust me...

thezed · Oct 19, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Oh god, I hope a mod locks this fast. Didn't see an acutall suggestion in the whole post and the Title even states it is a "Rant".

Just another uninformed complaint from QQ_Phoenix Tears.

1. Since HM was introduced you have always gotten sent back to the outpost once your whole party reached 60% DP. The update to GW:EN simply made this true in dungeons as well.

2. I personally have Vanquished Old Ascalon with only 3 heros and myself. It can be done, it is not too difficult. I am not even an "elite" player.

3. Vanquishing is not broken. It is difficult, yes, but it should be. It should be very difficult.

4. Dont PUG vanquish, that is always foolish. Join a good guild/alliance and team up.

5. If you really want/need to H/H, start from North Shiverpeaks or ToA. Done right you can actually vanquish all but 1 explorable with a party of 8.

6. Giving a party of 8 may not seem like a hard change to you, but the coding in it would be massive and the opportunity to exploit dangerous.

7. Calling the developers "perverst" and saying they get "horny" making "imbalanced" areas only makes you out to be an immature jerk. An opinion ive had for awhile now.

Antheus · Oct 19, 2007, 06:12 PM // 18:12

In WoW: stuff is imba.

In GW: /learn2play

My Ascalon vanquish party:
- Monk (with decent hex removal)
- mostly dom Mesmer
- Curses necro
- Damage (blood necro, earth or air ele) or interrupt ranger

Quote:

only because your full party got -60%, where you had before that freaking silly change the chance at least to use

This was true ever since HM was introduced.

Quote:

2: the fight will become an endless fight, where either side A or Side B will win ever

This was true for Prophecies when the game came out. Fights lasted for 30+ minutes, to kill a boss. Get a better build.

Quote:

because the monks will easily outheal everything

Diversion. I don't think any monks there have hex removal.

Once again - rather than bringing up a pointless rant whining over being unable to kill monks with pathetic skill bars, it were more helpful to ask for tips.

Many have vanquished the area already (you can also cheat, and go from ToA or at least Yak's bend to 6/8 person party) with 4 without much problems.

Chris Blackstar · Oct 19, 2007, 06:12 PM // 18:12

With all the DP reducing items out there, there is no way nothing needs to be changed.

fleshharvest · Oct 19, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

I vanquished old ascalon with a sin, para, SF ele, and a bonder. The key to that though was mark of rodgort, coupled with fiery daggers and fiery spears, plus "They're On Fire." I was expecting it to be a lot harder, I did it in like 45 minutes.

KANE OG · Oct 19, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXReznorXx

So basically you're saying: 'I am not good at HM, please make it easier so I can get a title you actually have to put some effort in.'

I believe that translation is dead on. Cheers.

KANE

nightwatchman · Oct 19, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

/not signed.

Enough people have vanquished tyria now that its definitely in the "hard but possible" category. Which is exactly what I think hard mode should be.

BlackSephir · Oct 19, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

So many good threads recently: changing skillbars durings missions, making vanquishing easy.
Probably missed the 'make survivor title easy' thread but I just know it's there, in dark corners of Sardelac.

Phoenix Tears · Oct 19, 2007, 06:42 PM // 18:42

close this, somehow i thought me, that it would be senseless to pinpoint the unfairness of HM and there areas, where you have to make them with 4 characters only ... and that its only freaking frustrating, when you get kicked out of the area after hours of vanguishing, only because your party got easily too often full party wiped and that this -60% DP kick only increases the wasting of powerstones ...

Saphrium · Oct 19, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

So basically you're saying: 'I am not good at HM, please make it easier so I can get a title you actually have to put some effort in.'

QFT

If you can't do HM, then YOU ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH to do it. DON'T DO HM.
If quite many other people can do it and you can not, then there is a problem with you, fix yourself before whining.

Old Ascalon mobs have ridiculously limited skills for you to out-maneuver, it should not be difficult.

Div · Oct 19, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Four person areas are actually quite easy if you know how to pull correctly and not leeroy into 10 monsters at a time.

MirkoTeran · Oct 19, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Can someone please close this rant.

zamial · Oct 19, 2007, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day Trooper

Without a doubt:

/notsigned

Achieving the Vanquisher title is supposed to be difficult! Why do you think it's called 'hard mode'?!?

I would absolutely /ragequit if ANet made vanquisher easier - especially since I just got Legendary Vanquisher recently

and know first-hand how difficult it can be - and would be royally peeved that others could take an easier route to get the same title I put in many nights trying to achieve.

And you know what? This is the title I'm most proud of because of how tough it is!

If you're having trouble with areas review wikis and what not to see how others completed them. No area is impossible trust me...

Exactly.

also don't forget you dp removable consumables or bring a hero without a rez and flag it at the shrine before it is at 60dp. if the entire party is at 60dp that is just plain bad vanquishing skills.

Dav1ds · Oct 19, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

well i got my legendary vanqusiher on my necro and know how is it to clean area with h/h.u just need 1 person with full equiped heroes and u can clean 3 maps belive me.me and my friend ranger cleaned all 3 maps without any problems expect "joko domain" we didnt knowed there are mobs with "wow of silence".
its true some areas are realy hard but its HM

.

xXReznorXx · Oct 19, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

As said, sure it should be a challenge, but also be a fair challenge, fighting lvl 22-30 enemies with only 4 characters, especially with only heroes is not fair, and especially again, when it seems now to force people to make it with certain special group builds, to have a chance ... group builds needs to be totally regardless, if i take now a paragon with me, or not should not decide, if i will be successful, or not, neither if i play now with 3 heroes or with 3 players in Old Ascalon, which is still alone unfair through pve only skills being unable to be used by heroes ...and thats the point for sure, why you told me, to take a paragon weith me, cause of its ability to reduce received damage ...

and what should people do, which dislike paragons and so have not unlocked very much of their skills for heroes, should i get now forced to search for a paragon player ? our should i get now forced to unlock first douzens of paragon skills, only to be able to create a paragon hero, with that i will have only a chance to successful vanguish old ascalon ... no i don#t think so, I't can be, that players get forced to make ever certain speciall things, only to be successful in 1 thing of the game, thats also not the point of GW where Skill > Time ...

Oh my gosh, you would actually have to adjust your team's build to get something done? Oh noes!

You wouldn't even need a Paragon, that was just an example. Nobody will force you to use a Paragon to get through HM, as there are dozens of other builds that lead to the same result.